Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi

Paris, France
20 June 1981 

A Sahaja Yogini has put some questions to Shree Mataji, that they people present there had prepared, a list of questions that they want Shree Mataji to address, i.e., the role of agyana, swadhistana, collective, the liver, how to develop faith, the function of faith, etc., and about the topic that Shree Mataji is going to address.

Shree Mataji is discussing on the questions She says that She has addressed a lot of Christians, Protestants and Catholics, and also Jews, She says She addressed people in a synagogue and spoke on Christ first, the Jews did not object but said that She should have spoken on Moses first.

The first question that comes to us you know is how to look after the swadhistana, because as I said that Europe is the liver of the world. The function of liver is to eliminate all poisonous things that are detrimental to the growth of the being. All such things can be called as poisons so the role of Europe is to eliminate all that is poisonous for the society, and I must say you have had great people in this country for whom I have tremendous respect and regard. One of them was Emile Zola who very clearly described the perversity of a human mind and how it gets poisoned inside. In a book called Nana he has described a society which is very duty [unclear] and very perverse and how it was making a man into a stupid fool. I mean he described the gentleman something like [unclear]. How one can be very stupid when he tries to bow to his lust, and a foresighted woman how she could be very good wife and how she could be a horrid person [unclear]. Then there is Maupassant another great writer, whom I read when I was very young [unclear] 13 to 14 years of age [unclear] who tried to point out to the poisons of the society, and the religious writers who were realized souls also have been there many in France. For example John of Arc, is another example of a powerful woman. In so her powers were of [unclear] and an ordinary farmer’s daughter to control an army through her [unclear] you don’t have to see whether they were successful or not but we have to see that they very clearly and boldly showed or expressed in their lives the existence of giving and of purifying power of women. Now we have many types of poison in the human beings.

The first one is the [unclear] you should start taking poison within you gradually your liver goes wrong. As a challenge to this universal liver people started brewing wine into an alcohol. There are two things wine is different and alcohol is different. Now, this wine or this alcohol what we normally drink in Europe spoils the liver within us and the universal liver also. Our liver is symbolic of this liver of the primordial being or we can say our liver is one of the cells of the larger liver, I mean the European liver. So, the responsibility of Europeans has been to remove the poisons of this universe not the consumption of it and then boast it off. This liver like that exists here who have been alright but so many types of poisons that settle down in this country that people could not overcome.

It’s a very vicious circle as far as the liver is concerned, because liver sustains our attention. If you do not try to keep your attention on purification anything like alcohol also intoxicates your attention, so your awareness becomes dull. This dull awareness helps you forget the so called ‛realities of life“. Thus you start accepting more and more just to get out of this or sort of escape out of the present [unclear] and the whole system of European people became intoxicated. They started living a make believe world. By taking these alcohols one becomes more impressed by its subconscious, I mean you live more in the subconscious and the beginning starts progressing so when you start moving on that line the extreme point becomes most important. So, the whole descent leads up to [unclear] point.

Now, why all the prophets were against alcohol because once you take alcohol the vicious circle starts you start losing your human value. Then compromises start in life in saying ‛what is wrong in taking a little alcohol“. If the dharma or our sustenance is disturbed by these poisons intoxicating our men then the basis on which we stand shatter. So, at this point one in conflict starts thinking of God and religion, but that too has a biased of this liver intoxication. For example, people took to [unclear] Catholicism in this country became very common, but they did not put any clamping on the [unclear] in the beginning they did, but gradually that was the thing they relaxed. When your awareness is disturbed even your ideas about sex are disturbed. You start compromising with your sexual behavior. So, a kind of confined conflict came upon human beings that they have to be ascetic and they take alcohol, by taking alcohol they lose all their values about sex and they do not know what do about it. So, all the nuns and all the ascetic people inside them they are so disturbed, but outside they had to wear an artificial life of asceticism.

I asked a friend of My husband one day very clearly ‛what happens to you when you get drunk“, he says that ‛I developed a new type of attachment for women and their body I did not respect them as sisters or mothers, but I liked them as women“. Like a human being becomes an animal and he sees the other side of sex as something as an animal. So, all the beauty that human beings had developed of married life and of virginity and of respect of women is lost. The another thing that I found out from him that he told me that ‛other friend of his, some of them started looking at their sisters as women“. The fathers started looking at their daughter’s as women and the mothers started looking at their son’s as a man. So, these sublime relationships which are existing in human beings as their evolution has given them a special aptitude to develop this society of human beings where the relationships are of different degrees, what is wrong? When this happens in any human being compared to other human beings he feels that he is something inferior to others in his [unclear] or he has done a mistake or a sin or something against in his [unclear] he feels that way. He starts fighting his own being, the sustenance the human being as he is pure. He starts fighting his own purity, sense of purity, his conscious and then he starts rebuilding himself on new premises by saying that ‛oh! I have done wrong, this is all nonsense“, we should have not been into it like a thief who becomes a [unclear] after committing three or four thefts and that is how he concludes or gets over his conflict. He doesn’t want to live every moment with that part.

The problem is when his liver gets affected; the confidence in oneself also becomes very-very low. Now, as a Mother I will never blame anyone. I should take the blame on Myself. The mission is that when the incarnations came on this earth, all these incarnations or prophets talked against alcohol, but they should have very clearly explained that these alcohols are poisons and they are the creation of some devils who have been able to ferment them and they have created for the use of the destruction of this world say supposing that this is an atomic bomb, nobody would have drank, but they did not say, they just said ‛don’t drink“. By saying that only [unclear] created a problem for human beings. Because if you say ‛no“ to them then they [unclear], that is how the children are and once they get into the habit of drinking then there is no way out at all.

But for example, Christ did not talk against alcohol, because his job was different, another thing Krishna never talked against alcohol. Rama never talked against alcohol. In that extent, I would say none of the incarnations ever talked against alcohol. Except for the Primordial Master, but when these prophets told ‛don’t drink“ as I told you the people who are told are the greatest drunkards. First of all Europeans [unclear] were very conscious of it and their conscious itself was so [unclear] in their guru that they went against it with very great force just to overcome their conscious. the ego thought better put it down by drinking it. We can say the Muslims [unclear], Mohammed Sahib has very plainly said that [unclear] people should not drink. He said ‛no intoxication should be there“, but first they started smoking then said he never said don’t smoke. There was no smoke at that time, He didn’t know that human beings are going to develop smoke after him, and He also did not know that there will be something like LSD and bhang and all this nonsense. Otherwise, He would have said that ‛you should not have bhang, you should not have charas, you should not have this, you should not have that because that is poison, it spoils your awareness, you become this, your society will be spoilt“ but He didn’t think that human beings wouldn’t use their [unclear].

All these great incarnations lacked their human understanding. They could never understand that these human beings are so childish and they could be so stupid. Moreover, they had to do some other type of work with which they were busy, but a Mother understands and that is when she forgives, and She knows that you have to tell them very clearly about it. You have to give them a complete counsel, complete understanding.

Like this room has got the atmosphere which is clean, so when the sun rises the light shines very well inside. The spirit is unchangeable, cannot be in anyway made impure nor can it be destroyed, but the attention if not clear you may not see the spirit at all. We can say the lampshade, we can say, is the liver which contains the space which is the attention. Now if you put the light inside the lampshade and the lampshade is not clean then you do not see any light. If the lampshade is absolutely black you won’t even feel the existence of light inside, this is an analogy of the dead things we are talking about living, so when the Kundalini rises She first feels the swadhistana.

Now, the swadhistana is the one which looks after your attention. The swadhistana clears out your attention through your liver, through your pancreas, and through your kidneys and the [unclear] through your spleen and it makes it richer by transforming the fat cells into your brain cells. Now, the human brain cells are very special ones. They have an attention which goes out. If a man looks at something he creates a thought wave of himself about that. So, all the dimension of aesthetics and all we can say the form and color and all dynamics are in the human mind, which animals do not have. For if the [unclear] big flower arrangement he can protect his attention in such a way that he sees beyond it and by using few light you can create the atmosphere that this arrangement is making.

For example, a dramatist can write a play and put the whole thing in such a way that he creates a mood or a musician can put a melody before you and can create an atmosphere of utmost joy. So it’s the only human mind that can got to abstract. Of course, we have very gross human beings also but they can develop into very beautiful human beings who can project their mind to abstract. I mean there is no end to the dimensions of human brain. For example, a scientist can find out what is under this tree, but an animal cannot see beyond it [unclear] leaf that’s all. The animal does not know any mannerism or any method of expressing his love which does not hurt another person and there is consideration only beauty of human beings comes through the brain cells.

So, this multidimensional brain cell is sustained by your attention. But as no great Indian artist musician they can completely grasp because they become drunkard or they affected some other organs within themselves more than liver by taking to something like say hashish and all these things, I don’t know what all sorts of things human beings have done, but these ill effects of alcohol are not seen because it gives rise to your ego.

Now, how does a thing that goes to the [unclear] to the subconscious gives rise to your ego. The trouble is to avoid the ego you take alcohol, because you can’t treat your ego so you want to escape your personality and you take to alcohol. If you had fixed your ego it would have been much less, so when you comeback from that drink you have another big balloon coming up and because of this ego activation your brain cells start becoming very active, an egoistic man has a tremendous brain, for sometime you become extremely powerful, you have new inventions this kind. With your ego you can be a very successful person and could be a great orator and you could be like Hitler for example. And this would go on and on and if you were not affected by the after-effect, the hangover. But all the poisons have a capacity to react. All that is not divine in the long run always reacts.

So then after sometime you find nations after nations finish off like Roman Empire. Now England is leading the way, France I don’t know, Switzerland. Switzerland has another problem also they are giving military training, God save [unclear] so Norway people are committing suicide, Sweden is competing with them. Now, I have touched all the European countries. All right Spain and then Italy. Spanish people, how aggressive they were once upon a time. They went up to Chile, and Argentina, and all these things and now they are supposed to be developing country. They are a poor country. What about Portugal, Portuguese came to India they ruled us for so many years. While the British, they ruled us for 300 years, but now they can’t even hold a glass like this, how will they carry the crown of Empire on their head? They are having strikes everywhere, why do they want more money? Just to have more drinks are they going to do anything better with that money? The more money you give human beings, the first thing they will do is go to pub. You bless them with the good crops of say grapes they will make alcohol. You give them any power they will make atom bombs.

Now, this kind of confused attitude that people have developed is because of their awareness being completely flooded with smoke of poison. All the foundations of your values are shaken that is why people have no self confidence, they have only ego, but the self confidence part is your virtues. Through the manifestation of your spirit when you enjoy your virtues, you are confident, you are not bothered, but ego [unclear] you stick your nose into everything and nose gets smashed every time and that is how [unclear] but a virtuous person has no way to be defendant. He can’t [unclear] because the greatest virtue is to love. So, now how to love. How to love, our idea of love comes to us from our India. Love means a husband or a lover should bring a flower for you and the wife must smile, whether you feel like smiling or not you should smile. The whole idea of love is some sort of a bakery, but they are honest to say that ‛we fall in love“ say we fall that you have to fall in love you cannot rise in love and so many Sahaja Yogis have told me that ‛Mother we have not yet fallen in love“. As it some piston is going to make them rush into that form or I don’t know what sort of [unclear] it is a very dramatic stuff. They will take 3 years to fall in love and 2 days to get a divorce. So to describe love the way human beings understand is impossible. It is all nonsense. It is all done through your ego. You have to do it from it your heart, but where is the heart, it is all covered with ego. So, the idea of love is nothing but a very subtle expression of your ego. Whether it is a mother’s love or a father’s love this I is there. Like my son, my daughter, my wife, my voleboc and this my and mine is not love. We want that we should love others, how can you love when you agonize everything about everybody you deaden the person completely by [unclear] I love this flower, I want to love this flower. So as a human being I will cut its throat take out every petal, make a nice paste out of it and then eat it and then say ‛I really love“. This is not the way love is. It is a state of your heart. Really, the love is the feeling of giving, feeling of so called sacrifice, people call sacrifice. Like somebody said to Me, ‛oh! are You sacrificing Your Holidays“. It is giving and the joy of giving is the love, but when you try to judge and decide on very material level everything then it becomes a [unclear]. Supposing you have a lover who has been to say the military of Switzerland so he comes back home and he has already grown a big moustache and he says ‛you haven’t yet saluted me“. Then, he puts his left foot ahead then the right foot on the side, then he goes into at ease pose and then says ‛alright let us kiss“ and then you do two-three left right and go near him now he measures the angle of your [unclear] and then he just touches you and finished again like a swing.

That is so, that is not love, it is the state of mind one has to achieve. There you do not judge anything, don’t judge anything. You know there is a defect, but you envelope it with your love, make a beautiful pearl out of it like the [unclear] that is spreading everywhere, it does not see any defects and crowns the leaves, it just gives and gives and gives. That is how one how to achieve that state where you just give without consideration of my-my or material considerations and other nonsensical [unclear] methods of approaching it. Allow your heart to merit, allow it to [unclear] and you are the enjoyer nobody else, you really enjoy it. If others get angry with you so what, if they say anything nonsensical, so what, you are not enjoying them, you are enjoying yourself. This is real love and not a [unclear] for love I have to write poetry. If all the oceans become the ink and the sky becomes paper, I cannot write. It is so beautiful, it is so energy giving, it is so radiant. I cannot tell how many words one can have for that.

You achieve that love, that real love not the way human beings describe it. It gives forgiveness that you enjoy. It gives complete confidence; it gives you complete self respect and respect of another person. It is the communication of the divinity with others, it is not rational, it may not be logical. We cannot explain how God’s grace was. For example an archbishop of black magic gets realization. Having enamored, I am enamored by the priest. Those who were going to hell are given the duty of self. Can you describe it in human words, this is love [unclear].